[RedOdare]

Venting a bit of steam here after the initial numbness of hearing the news from Bray

Hopefully something good can come out after the sadness of the deaths of the two brothers. The tide of change needs to happen soon, for one we can't keep the madness of 36 different fire services run by local councils and their purse strings, a single Fire Authority not limited by small fry budgets is needed soon (as recommended by Grant Sparks Farell). Pump that takes the least amount to time to attend a fire regardless of county needs to be the rule and CFO is accountable for this.

I think we need to have our voices heard by the powers to be which in fairness to them to the Unions have been doing on the Radio but more is needed.

Brian's daughter was on the radio this afternoon and they are trying to increase the campaign for a full time pump in Bray. They are looking for people to stand outside at the next council meeting in Bray.

[romeo bravo]

I agree red, if you recieve anymore info about standing outside the council meeting if you can get your hands on a time and a date ill see what i can do

Alot of firefighters said it would require a tradgedy for the powers that be to wake up and make the changes and hopefully this is the one and nothing like this should ever have to happen again

[Blackbolt]

Here, here, Red well said. did anyone see the press release from SIPTU last month on RTA turnouts, the press basically ignored it or were told to bury it, I don't know. You damn right about one governing body for the fire service, it depends on where in the country you live what service you get, and I'm not talking retained / fulltime , here. I'm retained as you all know, if you crash in my county you may get fire service attendance in good time but more then likely you will be waiting because we are not alerted until the ambulance arrives, thats the policy here, go to a different retained county and you get everyone you need as soon as the call comes in. All the citizens of Ireland deserve the same service, and they deserve it now. We all know the government "cherry picked" the Sparks report.

[Hazmat]

**********************One island, one FRS/EMS*************************

.....and Hazmat, USAR, HEMS etc. etc. etc.

It's just common sense for a combined population no bigger than a large city. This should be the start of the campaign!

[Beaker]

Gents, you are all totally correct. Yes, we are all a little raw at what has happened in Bray, but in 2 weeks time, the joe public individual may forget the loss of our 2 brothers. We won't. Bray might get it's deserved full time service, purely from the outcry in the town, but it still leaves similar towns in Ireland in the same boat....

As I said, I agree whole-heartedly with the sentiments expressed, but we all know, the councils/corpo's don't give a flying f**k about fire cover, in fact, they pay it lip service. If they did, the FGS report would have been implemented.

Sorry lads, it just seems to me that the FF's are the only ones who care about fire safety in the community!

[RedOdare]

Raw is definetly the word for it, I don't understand for one why Dun Laoghaire Full Time were not called to the fire on Wed, if nothing else to give the crews a break from the make up after losing their two colleagues, seeing those pics of the lads from Bray some very upset having to clear up after going through that with 2 Dun Laoghaire pumps only 10/15 mins away shows how messed up this whole thing is.

I guarantee you arklow and Rathdrum would be called to that fire before Dublin even though they could have been in the area as their patch runs into north Bray. We all know this stupidity and ignorance continues all over the borders of our 37 council republics in this state of 4m people.

The Guards and the HB are part of one organisation with one chain of command why can't we get the same, we're a front line emergency service not a pothole filling service the public deserve the quickest response regardless of what county town or parish they come from and in the memory of Brian and Mark we deserve to make sure the spirit of the cause is kept alive.

[Blackbolt]

WHAT ????????? Your sh/tting me. Two men went down and they didn't send backup to do the make up, thats beyond f*cked up, that needs to go to the press. I will stop writing now as I am about to blow.

[SiteAdministrator]

Members l realise everyone is full of emotion right now over the tragedy and that is quite understandable especially since l am currently working in Dun Laoghaire. However at this very early stage l think it's quite wrong to start doing the blame game and using hindsight when we were not there and a proper investigation has not yet taken place.

From experience and from being a member of the Fire Investigators of Ireland l have seen that such events are not always as clear cut as they seem to the outsider and even those who were at the scene can only ever get a part of the picture at the time.

l would sincerely ask everyone not to start a topic naming and blaming. As the Chairperson of the National Firefighters committee (also called Brian Murray) has called for an independant investigation by qualified personal l would ask everyone to wait until this has been completed before making comments instead of assumptions based on rumour and incomplete facts.

We need to learn what happened and bring this knowledge back to our brigades to ensure this does not happen again.
Alan
Admin

[A.F.S]

Im sure we have all heard about the feasibility study carried out by the Wicklow CFO into full time in bray. Heres a link for it off the wicklow co co website:

http://www.wicklow.i...fire_index.html

I think for definite now is the time for every firefighter and brigade in the country to make their voices heard and demand what is right and needed for the service. Whos knows better its condition only the rank and file??? Or are we going to let it pass untill more die?!

[Monty]

Im sure we have all heard about the feasibility study carried out by the Wicklow CFO into full time in bray. Heres a link for it off the wicklow co co website:

http://www.wicklow.i...fire_index.html

I think for definite now is the time for every firefighter and brigade in the country to make their voices heard and demand what is right and needed for the service. Whos knows better its condition only the rank and file??? Or are we going to let it pass untill more die?!

Bray should win the battle now for a full time service.
to get a full time station how does it work does it go by overall land size to be covered and population in the area or is it by retained call outs ?

[Blackbolt]

As far as i know its callouts, that was the biggest argument they used for Swords. But as we all know it boils down to money, if a retained station is cheaper, then a retained it will be. If Bray, and i hope it does, become full time then a lot of stations around the country will have to follow suit, at 240 (avg) calls Bray is by no means the busiest retained station in the country.

[Monty]

As far as i know its callouts, that was the biggest argument they used for Swords. But as we all know it boils down to money, if a retained station is cheaper then a retained station it will be. If Bray, and i hope it does, become full time then a lot of stations around the country will have to follow suit, at 240 (avg) calls Bray is by no means the busiest retained station in the country.

i didnt realise that it was not as busy as other stations where does one find the statistics for retained station call outs....

[yellowjacket]

i didnt realise that it was not as busy as other stations where does one find the statistics for retained station call outs....

Lots and lots here:

http://www.environ.i...rgencyServices/

[Monty]

Lots and lots here:

http://www.environ.i...rgencyServices/

excellent thanks Yellow Jacket

[Monty]

Bray is not too far down the list of stations for call outs good site for anyone looking for info on statistics..

[alpha]

As far as i know its callouts, that was the biggest argument they used for Swords. But as we all know it boils down to money, if a retained station is cheaper then a retained station it will be. If Bray, and i hope it does, become full time then a lot of stations around the country will have to follow suit, at 240 (avg) calls Bray is by no means the busiest retained station in the country.

Yeah, have to agree with you Blackbolt, they seem to use the number of callouts as a figure to decide if it is viable or not, and unfortunately based on that Bray would be a long way from being classed as a very busy retained station.
Question is, is that the correct criteria to use ? I would have to say from having being in Bray Station many times over the years, they dont seem to be allowed to turn out to very much, there seems to be a lot of incidents which someone there has decided do not warrant an attendance. I see on Wicklow County Council website, the feasibilty study for full time in bray and it says the only attended 7 RTA's in 2005 which is incredible considering the size of the town and that the M/N11 passes their door.
There is alot of arguments for and against but dont expect anything soon, watch the department go into hiding on this one!!!!
Cant see them agreeing to it as it could open the floodgates for fulltime in the likes of Ennis, Tralee, Newbridge, Athlone, Mullingar , Clonmel.... the list goes on and on.

[Monty]

Yeah, have to agree with you Blackbolt, they seem to use the number of callouts as a figure to decide if it is viable or not, and unfortunately based on that Bray would be a long way from being classed as a very busy retained station.
Question is, is that the correct criteria to use ? I would have to say from having being in Bray Station many times over the years, they dont seem to be allowed to turn out to very much, there seems to be a lot of incidents which someone there has decided do not warrant an attendance. I see on Wicklow County Council website, the feasibilty study for full time in bray and it says the only attended 7 RTA's in 2005 which is incredible considering the size of the town and that the M/N11 passes their door.
There is alot of arguments for and against but dont expect anything soon, watch the department go into hiding on this one!!!!
Cant see them agreeing to it as it could open the floodgates for fulltime in the likes of Ennis, Tralee, Newbridge, Athlone, Mullingar , Clonmel.... the list goes on and on.

thats a fair point. it just a tragedy what happened.

[A.F.S]

Apparently The PDA for the motorway by passing Bray is Dun Laoghaires. If Brian Murray had a fire in his house it also would have fallen under their area. Not Brays. True though that the Chief there does limit the types of incidents they can attend. Have heard some stories about the procedures for taking calls in thier watchroom which doesnt help either but they sooner they join STORM the better id say. As for callout statisitcs the environ website only gives totals for each authority, not each station. I can tell you Ennis is as follows: 2005 - 471 2006 - 569 and so Far for 2007 we are at approx 390 calls and would hope to end up between 450-500. Can get the figures for 2002 but no stats to hand for 2003 or 2004. If Bray goes full time then many of the other larger stations should also!

By the way, anyone notice that the wicklow chief lists the average time on call for a retained firefighter as 89 hours?! Just over 3 and a half days.... thats being generous to himself....

[Blackbolt]

By the way, anyone notice that the wicklow chief lists the average time on call for a retained firefighter as 89 hours?! Just over 3 and a half days.... thats being generous to himself....

It just goes to show how little he knows.

[hawkeye]

i dont think bray has enough call-outs to justify been made a full-time station....the two retained one-pump stations in north county dublin(skerries+balbriggan) would have approx 450-500 calls per year...prob more since malahide shut...i know day-manning is v.popular in the uk+they seem to be shutting a couple of retained stations+opening up a full-time or day-manning station instead...